Questions about Purgatory

Questions about Purgatory

Purgatory

I ask each person

who believes in purgatory

to gently move aside your beliefs for just a few minutes

and

look at this topic

with fresh new eyes. 

On this page,

I will examine and explain my views on...

Does the Bible teach purgatory?

I will examine that question and give my reasons for answering - No.

I will take the reasons

that Catholics believe in purgatory

and

I will give facts and logic

that work against

each reason.

~ ~ ~

I will start this page with a video.

This video will give us a jump start on the topic.

I apologize

for the

terrible image

Mike put on this video.

Please

click on this video

and quickly see that

Mike actually is a very nice man.

Disclaimer: This video is helpful but I do not always endorse Mike's views.

It is my understanding that this is accepted by Most Catholics...

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches

All who die in God’s grace, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification,
so as to achieve
the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven (1030).

If a person needed to go to purgatory,

for purification

then why

would the

Catholic church present ways

that time in purgatory could be shortened?

And If

living Catholics can

pray

or pay money or do some kind act for someone

in purgatory

that reduces their time or gets them out

such as

"You can obtain a plenary indulgence applicable only to the souls in purgatory
if you
“devoutly visit a cemetery and, at least mentally, pray for the departed.”

Cut & paste link  in browser

https://insideewtn.com/2017/11/02/three-things-you-can-do-to-help-your-departed-loved-ones-and-one-to-ask-a-priest-to-do-for-the-dying/

then

why do we need purgatory at all?

Consider this....

Things a living person could do

would NOT

purify a person in purgatory!

One quick reaction to 2 Maccabees....

Why didn't

Jesus tell the Jews

to put 2 Maccabees in the Bible

and then

explain clearly what those verses are saying?

I answer -

because Jesus didn't want 2 Maccabees in the Bible.

And

Jesus didn't teach purgatory

because there isn't a purgatory.

And consider -

If

purgatory was real,

Jesus would want to clearly explain it. 

The video above

discussed

1 Corinthians verses and 2 Maccabees verses.

Soooo...

Later on this page

I will

discuss my views on even more clarity with

1 Corinthians verses and the 2 Maccabees verses

and also

highlight some of the words of Mike Winger.

NEXT

More Points

I am now going to give

Points

that Mike's video

did not address.

Regarding Purgatory....

When we die -

2 Corinthians 5:8

says...

"Absent from the body is present with the Lord [in heaven] ."

We see that verse

played out with

Jesus and the criminal.

Look at Luke 23:43 with me.

The criminal on the cross next to Jesus,

certainly was not perfect. 

He admitted to

his guilt.

That criminal

would be the

" Catholic prime example "

of a

candidate for purgatory

if

there was such a place. 

Yet,

that criminal went straight to paradise!

In Luke 23:43

Jesus said to the criminal,

"This day will you see me in paradise."

-

He did not say, "This day you will be in purgatory."

-

Think about that.

A belief in Purgatory

creates

F E A R

in dying.

The Bible gives us the 

joy

of knowing true Christians are going

straight to heaven.

We can look forward

to

immediately

seeing our Lord and Savior

and our

loved ones in heaven

The

thought

of

purgatory 

leads to terror in even the most faithful of believers.

Logically

If

Purgatory was real, 

God would want us to know.

If

there was a way

for us

to pray or pay 

for dead loved ones to

to get their time in purgatory

reduced -

why

would God not make that clear in the Bible?

If

purgatory is true -  God would

clearly

tell us about it. 

Think about that.

If Purgatory is not real - TIME is WASTED

If

purgatory is NOT true - 

then

all the hours of praying for the dead

is

wasted! 

Look at these time-wasting suggestions....

Daily in November:

Here’s a suggestion Father Joseph was given and really likes – so he is passing it on to EWTN’s viewers. Get out your calendar, and write down the name of a deceased family member or friend that you intend to pray for that day. Offer up everything, good and bad, that happens to you that day, and pray as much as you can for their release, if necessary, from purgatory. This is an important spiritual work of mercy!

At any time, you can gain a partial indulgence for the poor souls by reciting morning or evening prayer from the Office of the Dead, or devoutly reciting the prayer “Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them. May the souls of the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.”

https://insideewtn.com/2017/11/02/three-things-you-can-do-to-help-your-departed-loved-ones-and-one-to-ask-a-priest-to-do-for-the-dying/

Look at all the time-wasted...

-

And think about who comes to steal our time.....

The devil comes to steal, kill, and destroy!

Think about that.

If a person

who

never heard of

the God of the Bible

just

picked up a Bible

and read it,

that person

would not find purgatory in the Bible.

Purgatory

is an idea

that is gotten from

another person

or

from a person's imagination.

-

As a life-long Protestant, and a Bible reader

I never had

any clue about

purgatory

until

as an adult in my 30's

I heard some kind of reference to it.

Even now

as I read the verses Catholics highlight

I do not see how they get their interpretation

from the verses

they use as proof.

I'll explain my interpretation of the verses further down.

The verses Catholics use are not convincing at all.

I will get to them a little later.

But First....

I am no fan of Martin Luther.

Nevertheless,

he did have a logical argument

about

the Catholic church and purgatory.

Luther illuminated this topic by asking the question:

If

the pope is willing

to release

an infinite amount of people

(in a process they used to call Indulgences)

  from purgatory  -

or at least reduce the time spent there -

if

you pay the church money,

then

why would he not do it for the sake of compassion?

(My paraphrase of the quote.)

Number 82 of the 95 Theses of Martin Luther

-

Exact Martin Luther quote

a little further down.

By the way,

> >  >  Pope Francis  < < < 

declared

that

he will

lesson a person's time in purgatory

if he or she will follow him on

Twitter.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vatican-get-time-off-in-purgatory-by-following-pope-on-twitter/

If I was a Catholic, it would be hard for me to take seriously

a Pope and the Catholic view of purgatory

when

 pope says things such as the following...

Pope said in 2013

About - Twitter...

Cut & paste in browser

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vatican-get-time-off-in-purgatory-by-following-pope-on-twitter/

It looks to me like

Catholic leadership

using

Purgatory

to try to control Catholics.

AND

Pope said in December 2020....

The Vatican’s Apostolic Penitentiary

has issued a decree

granting special plenary indulgences,

that is,

full elimination of temporal punishment

in Purgatory

for a forgiven sin,

during the “Year of St. Joseph.”

 https://christiannews.net/2020/12/16/vatican-offers-elimination-of-temporal-purgatory-punishment-for-past-sins-for-year-of-st-joseph

Look at this page

telling ways you can help out those in purgatory.

Cut & paste link in browser...

https://insideewtn.com/2017/11/02/three-things-you-can-do-to-help-your-departed-loved-ones-and-one-to-ask-a-priest-to-do-for-the-dying/

If Purgatory was Real..... Then

If

Purgatory

was real

and its tenants

need

to be punished

or

work off their sins in some way.

Then

why

would the Pope and the leadership

be so ready

to hinder the process?

Getting back to

Martin Luther....

Luther realized

that the Catholic leadership

was using the concept of purgatory

to gain money

and

control over people.

Number 82 From the 95 Theses

of

Martin Luther

  - Concerning Purgatory -

82. To wit: --

"Why does not the pope empty purgatory,

for the sake of holy love

and

of the dire need of the souls that are there,

if he redeems

an infinite number of souls

for the sake of

miserable money with which to build a Church?

The former reasons would be most just;

the latter is most trivial."

Beth says,

"The pope at the time

would reduce time in purgatory for money

but not for compassion."

Beth gives a loose quote:

If the Pope says he has the power

to reduce time in purgatory

and he doesn't do it -

he is an unkind person.

And if

the Pope says

that he has the power

to reduce time in purgatory

and he doesn't have that power -

then he is a deceiver.

Martin Luther

went on to say...

# 86.

Again: --

"Why does not the pope,

whose wealth is

to-day greater than the riches of the richest,

build

just this one church of St. Peter

with his own money,

rather than

with the money of poor believers?"

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/ninetyfive.html

Beth discussing the 1 Corinthians 3 verses

Next

I will discuss my views on the

1 Corinthians verses and the 2 Maccabees verses

and also highlight some of the words of Mike Winger.

To make the print bigger on a desk-top computer, hold

down the control button and click the  +  button

several times.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15

I have read those verses many times

and

clearly saw that this is talking about

our WORKS being judged

and

if they pass the test - then we are given extra rewards in heaven.

God will test our works

for the purpose of REWARDS.

-

The "works" are not being purified.

They are being judged concerning extra rewards in heaven. 

And if

our works

"do not burn up"

in this judgment by God

then

we will be given extra REWARDS in heaven for doing them.

It is about our works being "tested" to see if they are pure -

NOT our physical body being tested. 

It is so clear to me that I find it hard to understand how others see this as a person being physically or mentally punished. It is clear that this is about REWARDS and has nothing to do with punishment.

There is no purification going on in those verses. 

It is about REWARDS.

It says each one will receive his REWARD according to his own labor.

Reviewing Highlights from Mike Winger on this verse:

With Catholics, the things getting tested is the person. But Protestants see that the things getting tested is the works. The person doesn't get changed. They are the same before and after. 

The person is NOT in the fire; the works are in the fire. The fire doesn't purify anything -  it destroys inferior works..... The gold etc doesn't get more pure - it passes through unchanged. The wood etc. is destroyed. 

WORK endures and gives a reward or the work doesn't endure and you don't get a reward. 

If your work is burned you suffer lost but you are not burned. 

This verse does not teach any atonement for what was done. 

"As through fire"  you have to take it out of the sentence to make it purgatory. 

The person never gets burned. The person never gets punished. 

The works are tested to see if they are approved of or not.

Talking about 2 Maccabees

In the video at the beginning of this page,

Mike Winger

talked about the topic of

2 Mac 12:38-46

and the claim from Catholics

that it teaches purgatory.

Mike

reminds us that 

this event happened

and

was written down

before Jesus was on earth.

~ ~ ~

Here is a link to the story. 

Cut and Paste in your Browser
and then scroll down to the passages...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Macc%2010:10-2Macc%2015:36&version=NABRE

~ ~ ~

The story says that 

after a battle

Judas and his Jewish men went to gather the dead.

They found some of the dead were wearing idols.

So Judas and the men believed that

wearing idols was why they died.

(God may or may not have agreed with them.)

A collection of money was taken up and sent to Jerusalem

for a sin offering. 

The group prayed and made atonement for the dead.

~ ~ ~

So some Catholics who read this passage take it

to be a teaching of purgatory.

Mike Winger

in 32-36 minutes

gives

other problems that occur

if this passage is said to teach purgatory.

Other information that Mike Winger highlighted:

This book is not even accepted

by the Jews in their Bible.

When Jesus was on earth,

he did not say

to add it to

The Old Testament.

Mike says that

Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers, 

agrees with Protestants that purgatory is not in the Bible.

Akin says that Catholics believe in purgatory

because of church authority.

Beth says,

Just because Judas and his men believed something

does not mean

that God agreed with them.

There is no evidence that their actions

accomplished anything

other than it made them FEEL better. 

We are not to run after feelings

but pursue the truth found in the Bible. 

 

Other Reasons for Belief in Purgatory

Some Catholics say that

there are no purgatory verses in the Bible

- BUT -

they

say they believe purgatory

because

of one of the reasons below....

I will address each of these THREE.

1. Pope & Church Authority

2. Mary and other Saints telling us 

3. Tradition

I will

examine

these three below....

1.

Pope & Church Authority

said purgatory was true

The problem is that....

The Bible is supposed to be our guide -

not what some people said.

And

The Bible says that

we are not to add to the Bible. 

See: Proverbs 30:5-6 and Deuteronomy 12:32

2.

Mary Apparitions 

or other

supernatural conversations

with Saints who have died -

said purgatory was true

The problem is that...

Supernatural experiences need to be judged by the Bible. 

And

since the Bible

tells us NOT to

listen to or talk to

those who have died -

we must

reject

any information

from any supernatural experiences

from Saints who had died. 

 I fully discuss that on the page:

Talking to the dead is forbidden.

Also see my page

The EVENT

3.

Tradition

said purgatory was true

Tradition cannot go against the Bible.

Matthew 15:1-9  and Mark 7:8-13

Tradition cannot add to Bible information

Proverbs 30:5-6

Deuteronomy 12:32

What DOES the Bible say?

The Bible tells us that

to get to heaven,

you must repent of your sins and follow Jesus.

(You can repent alone if you want to.)

What happens when you sin again?

The Bible says in 1 John 1:9

that when you mess up and sin -

you are to repent and start again trying not to sin.

When you repent and turn to Jesus,

you are washed clean and your sin penalty is gone!

You are ready for heaven!

When true Christians

breathe their last breath,

they go to heaven -

and

they get rid of

their flesh and fleshly nature

and

are immediately purified

and

no longer want to sin. 

To understand more clearly....

Consider our page - Explaining Salvation  

Jump to the top of Questions about Purgatory 

Questions about Purgatory was presented in December 2024.